Ep 214 - Your Home Is Supposed to Be a Church: Here's How to Build It with Mike DiCosola

James Caldwell: Wherever you are in the spiritual life, Jesus Christ wants to encounter you right there and take you further. And that is something to be said to you and take in your own heart. But Jesus Christ also wants you to be the encounter of somebody else to take them further. This is the Manly Catholic, the podcast that calls you out of the shadows and into the fight. Here we forge men into warriors for Christ, husbands, fathers, and leaders who refuse to kneel to the modern world's lies. No more passivity, no more excuses, no more lukewarm faith. This is your battle cry. Your call to arms. The time for weakness is over. It's time to fight. Welcome to the Manly Catholic. Let's get to work. Hello, all welcome back to another episode of the Manly Catholic. This is James, and we have an in-person interview with Mike Di Casola. Mike, welcome to the Manly Catholic Podcast. Thanks for having me. First of all, did I could get your last name correct? I did get the last name. Excellent. Did I give you enough time to prep the icebreaker question? ⁓ we'll see like five minutes. We'll see. All right. Well, let me give you a little more time. Okay. We're gonna need to say Michael prayer. Sounds great. And then I'm gonna ask the question. Sounds good. Let's do it. In the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen. Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in Babel, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke and we humbly pray, and do thou the prince and host by the power of God, cast in the house, Satan, and all the old spirits surprise the royal seed in the room of souls. Amen. I might you're in unison use the same lingo. I know St. Michael Purg can get a little awkward, you know. Yes. We have a couple versions in our house. ⁓ yay. You get messed up. I don't have to direct. Although I do like the word like thrusting Satan to hell. Guess task. Anyways. First time guest, Mike, they get my wonderful icebreaker question. If you could be the patron saint of anybody, what would it be and why? Well, it's funny, 'cause we first asked, I s I said, ⁓ Can I be the patron saint of humility or not be an oxymoron that's Not at all. No, actually I thought about a little more. I I think I'd like to be the patron saint of like second chances. That makes sense. ⁓ okay. Excellent. I think that's because like in my life, I feel like I live most of the first half of my life completely lost and blind. Like a lot of Catholics my age, my generation, you know, and and God is always there. And He's ready to welcome me back. You know, and if it wasn't for second chances, I wouldn't be sitting here. So it's ⁓ That'd be a good thing to do to help people that need that second chance. You're like it's the kiosk, the blind man. Yeah. That was the kiosk, right? ⁓ I think so. Yeah, Bible mum Bible knowledge. Like no, it's the trees. Was in the trees on the trees. Or tomatoes. Burma you said it you said it confidently, and I just agree. Yes, exactly. I've been page to say confidence, even though I was wrong. I want to give you a little introduction here, my according to Mike, when he checked this, this was correct, so we'll we'll go with that. Mike Di Casola is the director of mission engagement for Paradisis Day, the Lake Calvin Ministry behind that man is you. He leads the missionary He leads the Missionaries to the Family Initiative, Paradisis Day's flagship couple formation program, and was commissioned alongside his wife Heather as missionaries to the family in 2021. Mike and Heather are based in Rockford, Michigan, where they run marriage prep retreats at their home parish. Our Lady of Constellation. Mike brings over 20 years of Of experience in lay ministry, Spain, early traveling, middle school, teen, and adult formation. He is a featured speaker at retreats, seminars, and conferences around the world. Sounds aggressive. Wait a next early to meet this guy. Before joining Paradise's Day, Mike served as director of digital services in Diacet at Diacesin Publications and previously as CTO at Fine Eye Color Solutions. He holds a BS in printing and computer science from the Rochester Institute of Technology. Well, that could all get back. We're going way back in the right. Yeah. Does that get all that right? Yeah, that's all correct. Yeah. Thank you, computer. So, Mike, before we get into the good stuff, tell us about your background, where you grew up. Did you grow up Catholic, Protestant? Yeah, sure. ⁓ I was ⁓ born and raised in the suburbs of Chicago. Okay. I'm originally in the Chicagoland area. ⁓ born and raised Catholic, Pedal Catholic. ⁓ but like many people my age. you know, was, you know, the familiar term. I was I was ⁓ sacramentalized, ⁓ cat guys you know, so I didn't still r I remember ⁓ thinking about we were talking about confirmation and the only thing I remember from confirmation is that we made these really cool felt stoles. Or like we cut out not the felt cut out like, you know, like images of like dubs and paste them on there with like glue and things like that. Were they interchangeable? Could you like interchange? No, it was like both real. We were that we weren't that advanced back then. It was pretty much just paste blue, I think, for the most part. But ⁓ Yeah, so I mean I'm a lot of my parents, ⁓ great and great family environments, ⁓ loving environment, all that stuff. But we were barely Catholic in mo you know, like I I don't ever remember saying a prayer in my home. Like ever. Like we didn't pray before meals. Okay. Nothing like that. ⁓ I think it wasn't until I was in my thirties that I knew. All the words legendary. Okay. Yeah, that's an example. So that was kind of like my upbring. My my grandmother lived with me when we were ⁓ from the time I was very young. And so she always had her own room and it was kind of like venturing into a different country in a way. If you went over to grandma's room and ⁓ and you went to her room and she had crucifixes, she had a great devotion to Saint Jude, but it was very private. You know, it doesn't like faithful isn't something that anybody wore on their sleeve or talked about in any way, shape, or form. So much so that ⁓ one summer when I think I was I think I I what It was right after it was confirmed. So it's probably right before my freshman freshman year in high school. ⁓ there were some neighbors who were Baptists and they were holding a BBS. And I'd never call what's a BBS? That wasn't a Catholic thing back then. So so they invited me to their vacation Bible cell. This sounds cool. We gotta go do this. Vacation. Yeah. And ⁓ you know, they had I mean they had the whole deal, they had know a youth group that came up from southern you know southern United States and it was a band and they were you know singing about Jesus and all these things. They actually had the altar call all of it. ⁓ the altar call yeah and yeah I came back and I was like I'm on fire for Jesus you know it's like we gotta like redo our confirmation like who's Jesus? It was it was yeah so it was rough. But ⁓ anyway, yes that's my backstory. All right. So all right so okay so when did you move to Michigan? So yeah ⁓ so Kind of part of the story that's kind of integral to f for me is like when I was 17, so I was on a when I was a junior in high school, my dad was 41, he passed away. And so that was that was when we stopped going to church completely. Like we went to church most Sundays kind of thing, but after that, my mom stopped trying to get us to go to church. So I went off to college. ⁓ I went to school in Rochester, New York, and I I can't tell you the name of a single Catholic church, like anywhere in the state of New York. Mm, you other than St. Patrick's New York City, but like where I where I went to school for four years, it it never even occurred to me that I should go to mass. Yeah. ⁓ so I was completely secular at that point, but I got recruited to come work for a company here in West Michigan. And so basically that's how I went and I went from ⁓ my home in Chicago growing up as a family, went to college in New York, and then moved directly here to to West Michigan when I've been here ever since. So yeah. So what kind you know, let's let's talk about Paradisia's day. Sure. organization at large and kind of your role sure with them as well. So I guess for those of you never heard of Paradise's Day, I know that man as you is kind of like the thing maybe most men have heard about. Sure. Tell us more about Paradises Day in general. Yeah. So Paradise's Day was founded in two thousand one by Steve Bowman. And for people that know that man as you, they know Steve. So the first couple years of that man as you you got Steve all the time. So all the videos were of Steve. ⁓ but it was founded as a an apostolate to up hold up lift the dignity and beauty of marriage and family life. So it was always a marriage and family life ministry. ⁓ when Steve first got the call to to Von Paradis this day, ⁓ he started he and his wife Shelly started meeting couples out of their home. And he good friend, Robert Vio, who was sent, he was going to a men's group at this Protestant church that was there in Houston. And he kept telling Steve, Steve, you've got to do something for men. There are hundreds and hundreds of men showing up every week at this Protestant church, and more than half of them are Catholic. Like You we can teach these guys the truth. And so Steve said no for a number of years, you know, like that's not what I'm called to. I'm supposed to work with couples. And then finally he kind of reeled sometimes, you know, the the Holy Spirit has to hitch you upside the head with a two by four hundred percent. And he finally said, Okay, I get it. I'm supposed to start a men's program. So they started that men issue at St. Cecilia's parish. That was twenty five years ago. And so we're we're doing our twenty fifth ⁓ anniversary this year. ⁓ well, I take that back. Twenty five years ago, we started Paradisis today. The 20th anniversary of TMIY was just last year. So it's been about 21 years since the first TMIY. And we're in over 1200 parishes now with with ⁓ that many shoe. And ⁓ we launched a women's program a couple years ago called She Shall Be Called Woman, and that's in close to 400 parishes now, almost scrum fast. So it's been growing very, very fast. ⁓ so so a lot of people again know us as this men's ministry. Steve likes to joke that ⁓ you know, we didn't plan it this way, but you know, God kind of also started with the men's. program in Garden of Eden as well. You know, had to get Adam to figure out what he was missing before he can bring woman out of the scene. So ⁓ you know then then then he could start the couples program. But ⁓ but it's always been a marriage and family it really has. And so there's been other things that that we've done to try enrich marriage, to enrich couples, things like that. Choice wine, the choice wine was a brilliant that was released in 2015, ⁓ that is still available for people to use today. Many parishes have used that. But the real kind of the real meat, the real ⁓ you know, foundation of us being a marriage family like ministry was the launch of Missionaries to the Family. So Missionaries to the Family launched in 2018, and it's a one-year formation program. So it it's ⁓ the way you get into it is it's a one-year formation program for couples. ⁓ but the idea is it's all based on understanding the spirit of Nazareth. So when you look at kind of the core understanding of what Paradisis Fate teaches. ⁓ like our the the reason why we exist is to help people to find and adore God in their home. So that's that's why we exist. So everything we do is at service to that. So a men's program isn't there to just make guys feel good about themselves. It's there to make them better husbands and fathers and brothers so that they can help their family experience God where in their home. Yeah, like that that's really what it's for. And that's why we're a lay movement, right? ⁓ because that's You know, the domestic church is where the rubber hits the road for most men who are in the vocation of parents and family mind. ⁓ so missionaries of the family and what we teach is something that we call the spirit of Nazareth. So everything we're trying to do is to base our domestic home on the holy family at Nazareth. And you see this in That Man as You when we talk about things like the seven steps. Seven steps are how do we live as men? These virtues that were really on display in the Holy Family at Nazareth. ⁓ at at the beginning. So so you everywhere you go within what we do at Parodies this day, whether it's Mysteries of the Rosary or She Shall Be Cold Woman or That Man is You, especially in Missionaries to the Family, it's all aimed at that at how do I live this authentic Catholic family life that's aimed to get ⁓ myself, my spouse, and my children to heaven. That's our job. ⁓ missionaries to the family specifically is designed to teach couples how to do that refoundly. And then to share it with other couples as well. And that's why it's such an intense formation program. So it's a one-year formation program. You take theology classes, bomb Notre Dame University from the ⁓ Graft Institute for Church Life. You go on three in-person weekend retreats. ⁓ you get a mentor couple that is a missionary couple that's assigned to you and they work with you. We have a chaplain, full-time chaplain, ⁓ Father Peter Towsley. He's the spiritual director for the couple through that year. And the the goal is to kind of form you in that first year. One of the things that we often say in formation is whatever it is that God wants to give through you, he first wants to give to you. So that first year is a year of receiving, learning how to live the spirit of Nazareth in your home. And then we send them out into the mission field. And the mission field isn't, you know, across an ocean. It's your local parish. Yeah. You know, so it's it's designed to to help the pastor, the staff, the parish to create ⁓ what we call family, well, what's St. John Paul II called. family of families, you know, families of families. We call it the festive oratory based on Don Ospo. So, but the idea is is to inspire these other families to to simply live out our faith. At the end of the day, it's not that difficult. You know, it's pretty simple. ⁓ but it's really, really yeah. I'm so blessed to be a part of that ministry, to lead that ministry because I get to I just get to see these families flourish. Yeah. It's just so beautiful to observe. Especially when families practice This idea of the festival oratory where they gather the families together in someone's home or at the parish and they celebrate, they have fun. You know, Don Bosco is fond of saying, let the boys run and jump and make as much noise as they want as long as they do not sin. Yeah. You know, so we want that spirit of joy in there, but it can't just be that. The faith has to be, you know, at the at the forefront. We have to teach them the faith. ⁓ and so to see these families gather together to enjoy each other, enjoy the company. But to do in this context of holiness and trying to teach the faith, ⁓ it's yeah, it's just beautiful. Yeah. I mean, it's just getting kind of back down to the like the basics, right? Like I said, like it's not over complicated, but like you said, it's the execution of it. You know, we s like we know what to do, but it's like are you actually doing that? You know, I love that intense formation. How was that for you and Heather going through that? I mean, I'm sure that was pretty intense and you probably grew a lot and had struggles during that year as well. Yeah. I'm sure tremendous fruit came from that too. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because you know, people come to missionaries to the family from all different walks of life. Yeah. And especially when you think about taking theology classes from some of these professors. I mean, the first professor that they get is ⁓ Dr. John Cavadini. If you've ever heard of him, he's like top five in the world theologian. So like when Rome, you know, when Rome, you know, is making a big decision, he's ⁓ one of the first people that are called. Yeah. ⁓ and what's interesting is that once you get to know him. Is like super humble, super funny. ⁓ he he's actually super goofy. He like kind of is good at making fun of himself in in a lot of ways. And of course, he's unbelievably smart when it comes to the faith. And so it's disarming in a way. So so you start watching these videos, they're online videos that you take. You're not we're not going to Notre Dame to take classes. ⁓ but we know it's about an hour and a half a week, you know, trying to miss a couple. And you sit there and it's like you hit play on the video. And you're going and you're like, whoa, it's ⁓ pause the video, like stop. What did he just let you have to process this? Or like, did you get that? You know what he said? And ⁓ there's a little quiz at the end that you take as well. ⁓ but like there's these profound truths that you know, a lot of it you know if you if you've been like if you dove into your face, or a lot of it, you know, you know on the surface, but they take it to a level that's like, well, I have no idea, you know that. And so I should say the the entire year is all based on the catechist. So there's four young professors that are going through the catechism. So that's what it is as well. Because, you know, if you're gonna teach people what it means to live an authentic Catholic family life, you have to know what the church actually teaches. Yeah. Right. So that's important. So so yeah, so there's ⁓ the coursework can be difficult. You know, everybody's busy, so sometimes it's late at night. Like we gotta get this done. Yeah. And ⁓ I I'll admit there were some times where one Or both of us fell asleep during the videos. We were like, ⁓ no, no, we got ⁓ man. Line dips coming out. ⁓ but but the in-person retreat. So so we in 2021 graduate from graduating, commit being commissioned in 2021. Yeah. Obviously, we were in the COVID years then, or instead of COVID. So instead of having three in-person retreats, we only had one. And ⁓ in a way, we talk about And the first class was so we were the second class. The first class was before us and they got two retreats before COVID hit. And now looking back, we sometimes we call those like the lost classes because I I'll run into people ⁓ that are missionaries, you know, being working for the ministry now. It's like, ⁓ yeah, you're a missionary. Gosh, yeah, I I've never met you before. And I'm kind of be trying to let's like, I've never met you before. What class are you in? ⁓ we're in class two. ⁓ that was the class I was in. Of course we don't know each other because we didn't get that chance to build those bonds. Yeah. And i I think that's a testimony to how important it is for the relationship. And and that's honestly that's really at the core parody to stay. ⁓ one of the things that we like to say is or I like to say to people is we're not a content company, which is really strange when you think about the sheer number of videos that we produce in a year. Yeah. But we're not a content company. Like the videos are the content's not there for the sake of the content. This the content's there to spark a conversation. with men, with women, with couples, so that they can ⁓ so they can have a relationship with one another. You that's why the That Man and U videos aren't available online. You know, because we don't the the content is almost secondary. Yeah. You know, the content is a means to get guys around the table to talk about how this impacts my life. And missionaries is the same way. ⁓ I I now I watch these couples that go through the multiple retreats and they have a mentor couple. By the time we get to the commissioning treat retreat, these couples are family. And they're from all over the country. You know, it's not like they're all from our lady of constellation at Rockford. I mean, I think the current class we have, we have somebody from ⁓ we have somebody ⁓ all the way from the East Coast, like in Connecticut. We have somebody all the way in LA, we've got couples from Florida. We're literally across the entire country. And by the time you get done with the formation year, you're you're good friends with this couple, isn't it and that's been beautiful for me as well. I've become really deep friends with all the mentor couples that that are a part of the ministry of small. Yeah, that that relationship too. It's just it's so important. I think too just the importance of I that man is you as well. Just you know, I know, you know, the joke is ⁓ you know, Protestants are so good at like small group stuff and Catholics have just been terrible at it. But I that man is you, I mean it is something that I think is really important because it gets brings guys together, you know, and the brotherhood is big too. I I was gonna ask you, Mike. ⁓ I don't know what that man is you is kind of has in the piling. Pipeline, but kind of talking about like small groups and stuff. One thing I found is with that man as you is the content that you guys produce is is I mean obviously like top notch. Yeah. ⁓ and then the it seems like the discussion after is where the most fruit gets born. And then it's almost like could there go like a next step? Coffee and prayer. It's the perfect blend. Mystic Monk Coffee isn't just another Cup of coffee. It's handcrafted by the Carmelite Monks of Wyoming, roasted with care and infused with prayer. Whether you're starting your morning or fueling your day, Mystic Monk Coffee has you covered. It offers rich, bold flavors that are as divine as their mission. By choosing Mystic Monk, you're not just enjoying exceptional coffee, but you're supporting a community of monks dedicated to their work, to prayer, and to the church. It's coffee with a cause. So what are you waiting for? Visit Mystic Monk Coffee.com. And experience the brewer that's feeling faith and flavor. So yeah, so you know, I grew up in Southern California with Rick Warren and Saddleback, you know, the mega church. And but one thing they do really well is is small groups and it's like right away they encourage, you know, get plugged in and here's you know five to ten people, and you know, but that's how you get to know people, and that's exactly what that means using with those relationships. So, you know, again, I'll kind of kick it back to you with with that mean is you ⁓ and has there been talk of like maybe developing a little bit more. depth into that. Cause like I said, the the video, the content's great. And then the the the post video discussion is great. And then there then it's like a week that goes by. You know, so like can we plug in a little bit more and dive a little bit deeper into that? Yeah, it's it's a great question. You know, w one of things that we have known for a very long time is that the the magic happens in the smoker. Yeah. It is there's no question. You know, the the content is amazing. And I I remember when I first started running them an issue with my career sh that our lady and at that point I had really dove in my faith. I I felt like I w I knew a lot about the faith at that point. And you know, it's probably you know, that there's where I the humility part probably had to dumb in a little bit. But but like I remember like showing up to that in a view, like, yeah, this is great for all these other guys, but I'm probably not gonna get much out of it. You know, like not out loud, but I I I know that was so hundred percent right. One hundred percent. And yet every single time I came, either Something that was said in the video or something was said in the small group, like totally you know, just just put me in check. Yeah. It was just like, ⁓ really? You you think whatever about yourself, huh? Well, you know, I'm I'm convicted. Like, I no, I've gotta I've gotta change something, yeah, based on this. Or something, just some some kernel, some information which just blow away and make me want to go deeper in my spiritual life. And so we've always known that the small group is is really what The content's great, but the small you have to have good content. People aren't gonna come if you don't have good good content. But we know that what really impacts guys is that relationship they build. And so we're constantly working on how to make sure the small groups are are ⁓ are excellent. You know, that we just have excellence and small groups. And so we do that in a number of ways because ultimately the the fruit of the small group is is gonna come from the the capability of the small group leaders and and the TMIY program that's coming back. Right. You know, when we say there's, you know, over twelve hundred, you know, parishes that are running on Manju, we know that not all of them are running it the same way that we're running at Our Lady or or some of these per some of the other of these parishes. So we're constantly trying to to to to mentor them and coach them to make the small groups better. And so when you see small groups running at their best, what you find is, you know, your small group has a text messaging group. And so guys can reach out in the middle of the week and be like, Hey, we need prayers. Or hey, I've I've stumbled on this nugget, you know, over the last week. So share it now with the group or ⁓ like I did ⁓ just ⁓ last night, the night before, because I had I was supposed to go to four am adoration and my plane got delayed. So I touched my T my Y small group. I Who can take my 4 a.m. adoration spot? And you know, somebody came back right away and they're like, Hey, I can do that. So I think there are ways that you can make the small group beyond just that 30 minutes on an early morning on a Thursday or a Saturday morning. But a lot of it we leave open to the flexibility of the of the of the you know the leadership that have that are there. ⁓ one of the things that isn't that well known about us is that Peridesis Day is officially a private association of the faithful. ⁓ so that means so a lay association of the faithful sometimes we'll call it but it's the actual term, the legal term in canon law is a private association of the faithful So we actually have a status in the Catholic Church, you know. And in being a private association of the faithful, we can actually accept members. So right now, yeah. So it's it's it's we're so it's kind of this process of going from just like a a lay apostolate to like literally becoming like a movement in the church. ⁓ wow. ⁓ now that takes time. I know it's been approved, ⁓ it's actually approved in twenty twenty two. Okay. But Steve Bullnick's been out the ministry for a while with with one COVID. And so it's we've only started really acting on it in the last year or so. So right now, ⁓ most of our missionary to the family couples are actually members of Paradise Stay at a missionary level. Yeah. We're also pri providing a pathway for couples who simply just want to live the spirit of Nazareth on their own, but not necessarily be missionary. ⁓ we're giving them a pathway to do that and be a member. And it's called ⁓ disciple as a disciple couple. And part of our statutes do lay out a future where individuals can also become members of Parody Sys Day. So when we think about what what's the future of small groups, what's the future of TMIY, I really feel that that's what the Lord is going to reveal to us is that next step. Sure. So you got these guys, you know you know some guys, they're gonna come to that manager every week and they love it because the camaraderie they have and the brotherhood. But you know, they're probably not gonna want to they're they're just not gonna go deeper. Right. You know, and that's okay. I mean, God's gonna meet people where they are. There's other guys that come to that manager. And they're hungry, they're thirsty for these things. And they are asked, how do I go deeper? Whether if that's in the fellowship aspect or in the faith aspect. And we haven't had a lot for them, you know, to to dive into. We give them a lot of ideas, you know, right for scripture and ⁓ and other things. ⁓ but I really feel like the disciple movement is where we're gonna see a deeper ⁓ development of kind of that fraternal bond. ⁓ yeah, you know, so so. I'm not announcing anything official or anything like that. It's very much open to where the Holy Spirit's gonna move right now. ⁓ right now we're just working with couples, but you know, we're obviously talking about that because it's in our statutes. Yeah. ⁓ and and I really look forward to being a part of the team that helps to figure out what that looks like. No breaking news for three hours. No breaking news. I already get out of note, no. But ⁓ no, I yeah, the the the piece to that ⁓ then John Edwards was party. I mean he spoke at he was the same. He's one of our speakers. One of your speakers, yeah. And John's awesome. But I know he goes around and starts manuscripts and he's up to and ⁓ yeah, I ca did ⁓ Exodus ninety this past winter. And ⁓ I regretted about 45 days in. But the thing that's great about the house. Yeah, and everyone else, yeah. ⁓ it was was something we got to Lent and a whole group was like, do we add to Lent? I was like, I feel like we've already been in the Lent. for the first forty five days of this challenge. So anyways, besides the point. But the the point of that is that the groups are much smaller. ⁓ so we had we had 14 sign up at our parish IHM. ⁓ but then we just broke it up into three. So there's group of six, group of four, group of four. Yeah. And that that was perfect. And but my my favorite thing that we did, ⁓ because guys just we just love doing stuff together. Like that we bond. And ⁓ Besides all the the challenges is every ⁓ Saturday we met at 6 30, but we met at 5 30 in the automation. Beautiful. And like that was by far my favorite part. It's like I was, you know, in the front, I'd look back and there's five other guys behind me just adoring our Lord's me. It's just it's just like that like talk about the discipling, the fraternity and stuff, like just doing stuff with another man is yeah. Because yeah, like the small group and and everything too, because the content As awesome as it as it is, it's still almost just like a you're a passive recipient almost. ⁓ of course you can be active and engaging and taking notes and things like that, but you know, it's really when you get down the small group and you're speaking to other guys that that really were, you know, the Holy Spirit kind of work on you and things like that too. So excited to hear what you guys come up with. Yeah, I one of my favorite things to do, I'd be my small group. One of my favorite things to do and what I always I also tend to we have a core team leader retreat. ⁓ every year in Houston in the summer. And I usually lead a section of it that's called Excellence in Invitation and Excellence in ⁓ Execution. That's what it is. And it's this idea of how do you invite men and then and then what do you do to make the small group experience? Really, really good. And for me, ⁓ what I have talked about is we need to get rid of this idea of of generic speak. Inside the small group. So what happens often in a small group is we have these really great questions based on the content. And the questions often are challenging. They're supposed to challenge you. Yeah. You know, what everyone likes to do is like, well, what did you like the most about the video? Yeah. And and sometimes that can go deep. And sometimes it can stay really surface. You know, but it's like, no, what about you? Like, what are you going to do in the next seven days to change your life? ⁓ even if you ask it that directly, often what men will will default to is we're gonna talk about all those other people. You know, they've I'm not gonna tell you about what what I did, but I know a guy or those people out there or or so it's this generic speak that happens. And it's like, no, like forget all of that. Like, seriously, like what about you? Like, what what are you gonna do to change your life? And then will you let the other men hold you accountable? To me, that's what we want to shoot for. We know it doesn't happen very often. Like, that's what it needs to be. I heard you guys are gonna be speaking with Deacon Greg, ⁓ and you know. ⁓ one of the things that Deacon Craig's been doing, and I know he's gonna talk about it with you guys, is he wait he's been doing this thing called discipleship quads, which came out Stevenville. ⁓ and that's something he's been doing to take men d much deeper. Yeah. And I really love it. You know, no one's invited me to this is getting awkward. Yeah. Deacon, I've just said Mike is waiting for the invite. I don't know. ⁓ no, but all kidding aside, like you know, just having him explain it, I some other guys to the parish that have done it. Yeah. And it's definitely that that let's go deeper, let's get much more, you know, transparent with one another, intimate with one another, know each other's stories, have each other's backs. ⁓ so I I I think it's gonna be interesting to to hear him speak about that as well. Did someone on that mess you talk about disappoint quad as a speaker. Okay. 'Cause I I I heard about it 'cause I'm actually doing that with I mean not like officially, but ⁓ 'cause it it came out of kind of what we've been talking about and A couple of us guys were all in like the exact same stage of life. And we're like ⁓ we just like want to go deeper. Like we want to form a brotherhood. Yeah. ⁓ 'cause as we all know, we can't do this alone. But yeah, so we've been meeting every other Tuesday and yeah, it's like our our wives it's actually funny, our wives started meeting first, they did ⁓ they did ⁓ what was it called? Fiat ninety, which is like the ⁓ the equivalent of Exodus. So they started and then we just kinda got together as guys like Right, let's do this. And then but yeah, it's it's it's just ⁓ you just have like this natural ⁓ resistance at first, especially as guys just like I don't want to talk about this and stuff. But when you meet with the same people over and over again, eventually it's like, ⁓ that that resistance resistance isn't there anymore. It's like ⁓ I just s share something vulnerable and you know, they don't hate me. It's like this it's always this ⁓ this lie that we believe is like, well, if I share something vulnerable, like this guy's good and I'm like not respect me or is gonna think less of me when we all know it's the exact opposite. We're actually gonna respect you more because you've yep you entrust me with something. Yeah. ⁓ and even if they do go the other way, it's like, well, probably wasn't really your friend anyways. If he's like gonna shun you and things like that. So yeah, sort of just think a couple of things. Like one of I I think one of the things that most guys are amazed if you hear you hear guys that start coming to Swabber, one of the things that you'll hear guys say a lot is, I thought I was the only one. Yes. Like I didn't realize that all these guys are struggling the same stuff I had. You know, in in so many ways, like that's the lie of the evil one. Like the evil one wants to isolate us so that we think that we're in this alone. And, you know, one of our one of our speakers is ⁓ ex-Navy SEAL Sam Blair. ⁓ yeah. And his amazing, you know, one of the things that Sam always says is a lone soldier is an easy target. Yeah. You know, that the lone soldier is a dead soldier. You know, that's just that's what it is. You know, and that's what the evil one wants to do. He wants to isolate us so that he can come at us and that we don't have that defense to us. And you know, I just love the line from Genesis. You know, it's it is not good for the man to be alone. You know, that's the thing. It's we're called into communion, you know, obviously communion with our spouse, but we're called to have that band of brothers as well. Yeah. And you know, I w I wanted to shift gears a little bit because you mentioned what was the woman's program? She shall be called woman. Even though we call also antigenis, Genesis. ⁓ yes, that's right. So what I guess so, I mean that means you kind of took off. So what made you guys wanna get into because I know like you said, the ultimate goal was to the couples and the men. Was it just that natural transition? Okay, let's get something for the women going as well. ⁓ didn't too many wives call in and say, Hey, where's our program? We want to start something up too. Well we have a whole history, decades of history of that coming, you know, like what you you you have all these men's things. What you know, where's the stuff for the women? ⁓ well She Shall Be Called Woman was actually something Steve actually started it more than a decade ago ⁓ out of his home. So he was he was doing stuff out of his home. He was inviting women to his home with his spouse. And he and Shelly were hosting these women and it was kind of like a small group ⁓ Bible study and Steve would take them through all these topics. And i I mean, literally he was meeting with this group of women for over a decade. And at one point the idea was, Well, we need to turn this into a series. And so there was an original version of this, ⁓ and they filmed it and it was Steve sitting at a table and things like that. And it just didn't resonate. It just didn't resonate well. And ⁓ you know, sometimes you try things, you know, the Holy Spirit prompts you, you try some things, you test the spirit, and yeah, that that wasn't for us. The reason that it finally came to fruition is Marv Harfiel, our our vice president, and his wife Katie Harfield. So Katie Harfield is a well-known speaker in her own right. ⁓ she speaks at most of the s a lot of the student bill conferences ⁓ across the country. ⁓ she's an author. A lot of people know her story called Woman in Love. And so she wrote that story, she speaks on that story, and it's all about ⁓ her praying for her husband to be and and that husband to be ended up being Mark and and so it's this beautiful story that they tell and ⁓ they were actually here in Grand Rapins a couple of years ago at the Cherish Marriage event and they kind of told their story there. And to watch them as a couple talk about the faith is just so beautiful. And well because Katie is so well known in the Catholic speaker circles, ⁓ you know, on the female side of the Catholic speaker circles, she had had it on her heart for a long time to bring she shall be called woman to light. So Mark and Katie both wanted to bring She Shall Be Called Woman to Light again. And ⁓ you know, and and Steve had made that attempt to do that, that, that process and, you know, decided that that wasn't the right formula. And so they came back to Steve and said, this has been in our hearts for a really, really long time and it's still there. So it's an authentic call of the Holy Spirit for us to do this. And so they ⁓ we kind of gave Katie the go ahead to to be the content creator and start inviting some speakers in. And they filmed the first couple episodes and from the get go, it was just phenomenal. And it's been so well received. ⁓ I think I don't I'm not gonna get all the stats right, so you can't quote me on this, but you know, like that manage you started in one parish, the next year it was in a couple parishes, and then you know, the next year it was maybe in forty parishes, something like that. So it took like five or six years before, you know, it was in hundreds, and she show was a woman. We launched it the first year. We're like, well, you if if 50 parishes signed up, that would be pretty amazing. That would it'd be massive success. And we had over 200 cadres per spirit. So it's ⁓ and the the one thing that's just a blessing about working with Paradise this day is often we'll we'll send, you know, little surveys out and say, you know, tell us about how you know this has impacted your life. And the number of stories we get back, it's it's hard to believe us. The number of stories where people say, You saved my life, you changed. my life. You saved my marriage. You brought me back to the faith. ⁓ and I I say them that way as little like little quips, but that's not how they come back. They come back with like two page stories of how it's impacted, you know, their lives and ⁓ and it's it's such a blessing to be a part of this this ministry. So with all that feedback that you guys get, is there like a common theme of like men specifically that you guys know this are like struggling with or something that they've found has really impacted them from that means you like has there been common themes throughout the years or is it just kind of random quips here in order? Yeah, ⁓ you know, if one of my if one of my colleagues, Jamie Gonzalez, was here or Mark was here, I'm sure they could pull out some specific themes. But for me, I I see it I then what I see is kind of cross the board. I mean, we literally have had people, you know, write in to Steve to say, I was doing illegal activities. ⁓ wow. You know, like I I was running adult websites. I was doing, you know, really bad stuff. And somebody made me come to this thing and I've completely changed my ways. So stuff like really extreme like that. You know, you see a lot of that in the men's kind of speaker circuit. You know, I I like I went really down the wrong path and then came back, you know. ⁓ but other things too that are just, you know, it's not like I was at my lowest and had to come back. You know, it just Women coming up and saying, Thank you, you gave me my husband back. You know, that type of thing. Or the number of gu at one point we're we we said we need to try and do a survey to find out how many men have become deacons because of that management. They've assumed to be acting. That's not gonna Anecdotally, you know, one of the things that we see is show me a that man is you parish and I will show you a parish where men are present in the liturgical ministries that should you know, it's like Because I you know, and this is nothing against women on any level, but there's a lot but met it's really it's actually against men. You know, men have been absent, you know. And so if you walk into most parishes for any Sunday mass, the only male person around the altar is father the deacon. You know, and the rest of it, the ladies have stepped up and taken their place, you know, have have served, you the way so everything from sacristan to altar servers to communion ministers to, you know, doing the readings from the lecture. But show me that energy parish. And it's a pretty even balance up there because I I I think men get convicted that you know, I mean I need to get in the fights. I need to get in the game. You know? And yeah, I mean and that's I mean that's the rightly ordered thing to do as well. You know, and I know just in the like the spiritual warfare realm as well. I don't know if you know Doctor Dan Schneider and ⁓ any of his work, but and he talks about that all the time, like me men have just natural authority that God gave them. Yeah. You know, and and yeah. And then Bishop Olmsted to the into the breach. Yep. Apostolic exhortation, which is incredible. But yeah, I mean he he said the exact same thing, you know, too many men have stepped aside and have just basically allowed the enemy to take over. And but yeah, like you said, the the women have stepped up and and God bless them. ⁓ but I think a lot of these roles, like you said, are were supposed to be for men. Yeah. And now, like you said, you just have these men that are actually, you know, on fire. They're learning about the faith. They're kind of re catechizing themselves, so to speak. And No, it's I mean, it's nothing but positive things moving forward. I mean you just see like the ⁓ the priests coming up now is their absolute on fire and you know, ordinations are going up and everything too and and I know OC has ⁓ soon to be Father Father Logan? Yeah, Father Logan. Father Logan, great guy. Yeah. ⁓ I know Jeff knows him pretty well. Know him for a few years. Yeah. Yeah. But ⁓ No, it's I mean, there's definitely a lot of positive signs. And I think, like you said, it's kind of moving back to men are are stepping up and and and reclaiming their authority and their goal. Yeah, but no, that's back to like, you know, we you see men stepping up, you see what's happen beauty, beautiful thing that we're seeing are, you know, our seminar seminaries have been reclaimed, priests coming out of them were so amazing. And for me, we see John Paul II is our patron saint, is one of our patron saints. He's our main patron saint at Paradise this way. So he his teachings are all over everything we do. Yeah. And for me, it's that new springtime that he's talking about. Yeah. We're starting to see we're starting to see the little the little green things poke up from the ground for that new springtime. I th I I mean I see it, you know, and you'll have people say, you know, well, you know, I mean it's still not back to these numbers and it's still not it's like, yeah, get out of here. Like take a hike, you know. Like, no, I'm seeing the fr I'm starting to see the sprouting that new springtime that St. John Paul II, I think, prophesied about Too many people are pessimists anyway. So like, well, it wasn't back in my day, you know, and and all that. Sour face saints, right? What is that? Was that ⁓ Saint Teresa Babylon? Sour face saints. I mean from Sour Face Saints. ⁓ So no wonder you have so few friends, Jesus, because of like how you treat them or whatever. It's like all of all the people are closest to God's who like the most persecute. There was all these disciples that got hung and ⁓ crucified him over except for a couple, so Yeah. Well we could talk a lot about self-rank too, but should you talk and I wanna I wanna dive a little bit more into ⁓ to your role. So mission you which you talked about. Yeah. So what are you guys seeing like in with couples and as they come And like is it so it's it's so the goal is the your formation and then now you so after that formation, are you now a mentor couple? No. So after the formation you're you're ⁓ you're commissioned as a missionary to the family couple. ⁓ god. Out of those couples, we do s we select those that are kind of living it the most profoundly and we have to under mentor couple to walk alongside other missionaries. I really should feel it. Okay. And then you bring back to the parish. Yeah, it's always about everything's at the parish level. So it's you know, that that's what we're trying to do is we're trying to tri because the par it's funny, you you talk about St. John Paul II, family families. ⁓ Archbishop Hebda out of St. Paul Minneapolis just came up with an amazing pastoral letter. ⁓ it's called Only One Thing Is Necessary. It's called Family Life in the Diocese of of St. Paul Minneapolis. And when he mentions family of families, as Saint John Paul II talked about it, one of the things he says is The parish is the family of families. Right. And so sometimes I feel like, you know, pastors can be a little leery of what we're trying to do with missionaries because, you know, it's like, hey, we're gonna go create a a family of families, and there can be a knee-jerk reaction to that. It's like, no, no, no, but that's my family. Those are those are my family. That's like just my point. And so we want and we want to make sure the pastor understands that like we're not trying we're we're not trying to take that away. We're trying to help him, ⁓ Deep and rich and expand it is what we're trying to do. So everything is through the pastor. Everything is through the parish. And they can be as involved as they want to be. But the beauty is we're a lay movement, right? So so you can have a pastor that can say, I know the formation you get. I trust the formation you get. I know what it is you're trying to do. I don't have to use any staff or parish resources or my own time to let you guys run with this. Praise be to God. You know, ⁓ because that's reality for so for a lot of pastors, you know. But I've also seen other pastors that deeply engage it because they want to get involved in what we're trying to do. And ⁓ and that's beautiful as well. So ⁓ But you know, you you like what's the goal? One of the things you said a little while is what's the goal? I mean, to to be to cut to the chase on that, like the goal is generational change of the culture. Like that's what we're after. You know, so sometimes you might watch one of like we have a video series for missionaries to use in forming couples is called the art of capital family life. And, you know, in there we talk about all sorts of practical things you can do in your home. But a holy water font by the door has statuary, you know, to lift your mind to the things above. You know, when we when we make our domestic church more like the, you know, the the ⁓ the actual church, you know, it it reminds us that That thing that happens on Sunday isn't just a one-time thing that I have to leave my house to go do. You know, like that, that's you're supposed to live that every day. Right. Right. And so so we do some of those practical things. And I think someone could look at that and say, so being a missionary is about putting statues in your home and having all the modified. It's like, no, it's not that at all. It's about changing the way that you walk through the world, changing the lens with which you see the world as well. and Really trying to get to this idea of people call it God math, right? So so if so if Heather and I'm the charity of the family can impact six other families. Like we know the data, we know the stats. If you have a father in the home who is sold off for Christ in the church and you have a spouse standing next to him doing the same thing, the odds of their children when they grow up and leave staying ⁓ not just not just staying Catholic, what a low bar. Like, you know, like the like being engaged in their faith, it skyrocket is it, right? So I've got five kids. So Heather and I are living this way. The odds that my five kids, when they become adults, when they're all adults and out the door, are actively engaged with the faith, it goes way up. Right. And so if out of my five, I'm hoping for all five. Let's let's be clear about that. But you know, if I get four out of five, that's better than most people do, right? And then they now live that way. Yeah. They have their own kids and they have and they impact those people. But it's not just my kids as well, because I'm called me a missionary. So it's I I was talking about it's my five the five families to my left, it's the five families to my right. Yeah. You know, like 'cause often like ⁓ even in that manager or or couples that are empty nesters, they'll hear about those stuff and sometimes they're a little heartbroken because they're like, Where was this when I was? And I had my kids in the home. Where was this? Where were my parents? Why didn't they teach me this? Right. And so there can be a discouragement. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Wherever you are in the spiritual life, Jesus Christ wants to encounter you right there and take you further. And that is something to be said to you and take it in your own heart. But Jesus Christ also wants you to be the encounter of somebody else to take them further. Right. And so whether you feel like you've lived your marriage and family life right or wrong, or you wish you could do it better, whether you think you're a you've done a good job of being a husband, whether all your kids have left the church, your adult children have left the church, regardless of all of those things, Christ wants to meet you and use you to be the experience somebody else needs. There are so many men, there are so many families out there that are desperate to meet other people that will walk with them. You know, so it's like I I so wanna be a word of encouragement to people that, you know, it it doesn't map your past, go to confession or forget it. You know, how is God gonna use me to impact the next generation? You know, because that's what missionaries is about, right? It's it's not about a bunch of Catholics sitting together and having parties and having a thousand kids running around. It is about that, but But it's it's about having an impact on the future generation. So that you know, you can get crazy about the the godmath thing, you know, like hey, if if if we could get fifty missionaries to the family every single year and each one of those impacted blah blah blah blah blah blah blah within a hundred and fifty years, the United States would be active practicing Catholic families. Yeah. Majority. Yeah. You know, like that that that's like the god math, right? Right, right. You know? ⁓ I I don't worry about that stuff. Like what I'm worried about is I'm saying so the next person I need You know ⁓ the next family that I can encourage to do that. So that's what we're trying to with missionaries. So yeah, there's formation. You have to know what you're talking about. There's, you know, that relational piece of it and and having a network of missionaries across the country that you can rely on. Paradise is they is there to support those couples. But one of the things that I I've recently said, I was talking to our founder actually just this week. And what I said to him is, here's what I want missionary to the family fellows to understand. we talk about these gatherings of families together where you have fun and faith and and learning, we call those the festival ritualy. I said, here's how important the festival ritualy is. If Paris Day went out of business in ten years for some reason, who knows? Whatever. Whatever that is, we don't speculate. They're gone. ⁓ if the Catholic Church in the United States is suppressed, if we have some crazy catastrophic event and the electric you electoral grid goes down and we're thrown back to the dark ages. If the only thing that survives is the festive oratories, then Purdy's Day will have been a successful endeavor on Earth. And honestly, if I guess that last piece that I talked about, the only thing that will matter at that what what what we'll go back to is we'll go back to the festive oratories. Families gathering together to help one another out to to live, to love, and to grow in faith. You know, that's what allows. So so that's what we're about. Yeah, there's a lot of details and there's a lot of You know, there's a lot of implementation. You can do a lot of stuff, but ultimately at its essence, like that's what we're trying to achieve. Well, it it's simplifying things. Yeah. Right. It's going back to and you know, maybe guys hearing this too. I mean, it's it's all about like your example, right? It's not about, you know, like obviously what you said is great, you know, have you should have, you know, Chris fixes and Cafe Gart and things like that. Like all that is wonderful, but like your children will just respond to what you're doing. Yeah. It's like, ⁓ yeah, we go to Nash on Sunday. Okay, that's bare minimum. Okay, we got a you know, a confession. It's so funny when we are going to we go to church like confession, like we go at least once a month. But our kids like no now. It's like part of their routine. It's like, wait, it's not in just an eating life. It's not in the morning. It's we're in the afternoon. It's like, ⁓ are you are we going to confession? They go, Yeah, we are. Yeah. So but yeah, it that's how you think, yeah. And it's not I I all I didn't explain what confession was to them. I'm like, ⁓ we're just go to confession. And then they know. It's like, okay, here we go. And, you know, as they grow up too, and obviously you you form them that way, but no guys, it's just just practice it and your kids will naturally I mean, they are expert ⁓ observers. And they'll just especially dads. You know, if you have boys as well, like they will latch onto you, especially as they grow up and like, okay, that's a good and a bad. The good and the bad. ⁓ yeah, I've seen the bad. I've seen the good too. But here's something I think it's really important to say to men out there. Like, you know, you hear somebody might hear you're taking your family to confession every single well, you know, that's a they might hear that I've taken my boys to ⁓ you know to adoration on setting the order stuff before that. They may say, Well, that's you guys are just way too well for me. Yeah, like I I can't figure that out. I'm not there. Look, the thing that I want guys to hear is like you don't have to be perfect. Absolutely not. Like you just need to take a step forward in this and and trust that. That like the most important thing for your kids to see you as a man do first love your wife, but but show them that you are a man who's serious about trying to figure out who Jesus Christ is and love him, knowing him and serve him. Like if they see you struggling to be a man of God, that will be enough. Yeah. Like they need to see look because that that's my story. You know, I mean, I was so far from the church. You know, and it's funny because some of my older kids, you know, they see me do videos and stuff now and I talk about things. They're like, Dad, you know, ⁓ when we were young, you weren't doing all that stuff. I'm like, I know. We were figuring it out together, weren't we? Because that's what it was. We were figuring it out together. But they saw me figure out trying to figure it out. Right. And ⁓ so you don't have to be perfect, but you have to be on the path. Like you need to wake up every day and firmly step onto the path of life and let your kids see it. Let them see you struggle to pray. Let them see you struggle with, you know, your faith and that type of thing. It it doesn't have to be perfect. But the in the intentionality is what math upset up. Yeah. Yeah. It's I I just keep thinking about like you know, the the simplicity too. Like for those of you who are listening, I mean even just like praying before meals. Yeah. Just start with something really s simple, you know, because Yeah, I mean you have a g ultimate goal, obviously, but if you think you're gonna go from whatever you're doing now, maybe you're not doing anything, but even just like going to mass on Sunday every day, ⁓ or every week, and then you weren't doing that. And the kids again, they'll start recognizing that too. I just can't emphasize enough to just you know, you're not gonna be perfect, you're gonna be messy. And that is okay. God is totally fine with them. God is fine because he will use whatever you give them, right? That's the meager fish and loaves you throw out there and he will multiply. That's right. That's right. All right, so okay. So we we talked about the I'm in as you talk about missionaries to family. ⁓ what else is in the pipeline turn to stay? Well, most of what's in the pipeline for us right now, that's in my kind of area of responsibility, is really has to do with the association. Okay. So it it's with trying to again you know, it's one thing to be approved as an association of the faithful, a private association of the faithful, but you're not a movement until you show that you're moving. Yeah. You know, in a way. And so for a a lot sorry to interrupt is that is that just like based on membership numbers that shows that you're moving or is it like certain parameters that the church is looking for? It's like, okay, now you're I don't think they have a formula. You know, it's just I think it's fruit. Okay, well, fair enough. ⁓ you know, you can actually get listed as a movement on the Vatican website. And if you look there, there's a lot of this a lot of the associations up there are you know, if you're fifty years old, you're really young, you know, tough thing. So so to become a To become an association of the faithful, you have to show that you're living it first. You don't just like show off at the bishop's door with like a business plan and say, This is what we think we want. Will you approve this? They're gonna be like, no, we like not that's not the way we'll go live this and then we'll tell you whether or not you're an association of the faithful. It's kind of that's my my very limited understanding. I am not an expert on this by any means. So what we're really trying to do is how do we how do we really get some momentum with this? You know, so we we have We've been running missionaries to the families, ⁓ you know, for this will be our eighth class that we're kicking off now. So we've been running that since 2019. And ⁓ and we eighth class, seventh class, seventh class. ⁓ so we have two hundred almost three hundred missionary ⁓ couples across the country right now. And so this year we've spent going around the country and inducting them as members. Those that discern they wanted to become members of it. So they'll qualify because they went through formation. So now what we're really focused on is making disciple couples. So kind of the natural progress would be you've got a missionary couple in your local area. ⁓ they're gonna host that festive oratory, they're gonna start gathering these couples together and they're gonna teach them how to live, you know, the spirit of NASA within their home. And eventually, if those families want to kind of stand up and say, I'm intentionally going to this is my path to heaven, you know, and in the in the words of a Pope Francis, the family should not be looked at as a as a distraction or detraction ⁓ away from holiness and that quoting for datum. But it is the pathway to the heights of mystical union is what he said. So for us, we're we're asking people, do you believe that your home, your marriage and family is the path to the heights of mystical union? And is that the path, your preferred path to holiness? Do you think we can help you do that? If so, we invite you to be a member. And then now we have that responsibility of helping you do that. Yeah. So a lot of the work that that's gonna be coming is fulfilling that responsibility to help families ⁓ you know seek the heights of mystical union through the holiday. So some of that is like the Art of Cat Family Life series, which launch launched in November. ⁓ what really what we're focused on right now in in the next year for for the missionaries team is really making sure these festival touries are taking off, that disciple couples are are being admitted into membership. With that, ⁓ the formation doesn't just end after a year. So we're really focused on what is ongoing information look like. Yeah. Yeah. So you talk about going deep. Go deep. We ⁓ we just had a we just had a conversation where we we kind of looked a little quick. Well, what books should somebody who's a missionary who's a mentor or who maybe wants to be a disciple couple of what books should they have read? And ⁓ I think we got we stopped we stopped adding books at forty-eight, but ⁓ and these are not these are These aren't introlighting. They're not intro to Catholicism 101 for dummies by any means. ⁓ can you can you tell me one book just to give our a little sampler? Just one book. ⁓ I've got a I've got a well, there's the obvious ones that you would think of, like Interior Castle, but I've seen that book. Well, even that's hard. That that is hard, but that's all dude. It is. It is. But you know, stuff like, you know, all three books on Jesus of Nazareth by By pop out of it. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ lots of encyclicals and mysterious work from Okay. lots of J two user. ⁓ in there. I had to I had to negotiate because I I'm like on day one, I'm like the first thing they need to read is familiarist consortium. ⁓ yeah. So it was like that they have to read that first. Then it was like, Meh, we've got to ease them into that one a little bit. Like, come on, it's like it's like his that's at the bar high guys. Let's go. It's like his suma on the family in my l mind. So ⁓ Yeah, so there's there's a lot and there's and there's some there's secular books on science and ⁓ how science has revealed things about the body that just always been a part of of what we've tried to do at Paradise this day. It's both faith and reason. Yeah. And so no reason in the modern age is science. Right. You know, not during it's ⁓ so so you know, we try and share where science has found things, secular science has found things that align with, you know, how we understand things today. Where whether it comes to neuroscience or social science, it was those types of examples. Yeah. Well you got a lot a lot on your plate. All good things though. Yeah, all encouraging. Amazing things. What's nine ten to rock capto? ⁓ my goodness. I can't believe my son has like yelled at me. Yelled at me. Maybe that's where the phone call was. He's like, I'm going somewhere else watching them. Well, is there anything, Mike, that you wanna leave with unless there's anything about Paradise this day or word encouragement? I'll give you the final word. And then we're gonna test if you truly know the handle Mary. Then we're gonna test beautiful. It's been a while, but I think I've got it now. God damn now. Yeah, I I I think again it's it so I've said this a couple of times. It's something that Steve Bowman said in the very first year of that ministry. He said, Wherever you are in the spiritual life, Jesus Christ wants to encounter you right there and take you further. And that's one of those lines that you could spend so much time like pulling apart, but in its simplest form, it means God's got a plan for you. And it doesn't matter where you are. Yeah. No how good, how bad, how indifferent you think you are. Like he's got a plan for you and he wants to encounter you there and take you further. He doesn't want to leave you where you are. But at the same time, he's not asking you to be a canonized saying tomorrow. He's asking you to take one step. Like one of the things that I always I always love Psalm ⁓ Psalm sixteen, the the last line of Psalm sixteen, which is sixteen eleven, I believe it is. It's I will sh I will show you he will I'm gonna go ⁓ he will show me the path of life. Fullness of joy in his presence at his right hand happiness forever. And it's like he will show me the path of life. To me, it's like when I read that, it's past, present, and future. Like he is constantly revealing to me the path of life. Jesus Christ wants to reveal the path of life to you, but he's not going to reveal the whole plan. Like sometimes it's just a spotlight, it's like a flashlight right down, just showing you what the next step is. So when I hear that, you know, Jesus Christ wants to encounter you there and take you further. Like I always insert one step further to. Path of sainthood, to sanctity to making your home an authentic Catholic home is by simply getting up tomorrow and taking a snap. So what is it I'm gonna do today? Yeah. You know, so that that's the tapeaway for me, is that. And then, you know, Paradisis Day, there's so many things that we ⁓ make available and all of it is free. So ⁓ whether that's something you want to bring to your parish or do on your own, the Mysteries of the Rosary series is just amazing. So that's free on our line. So go to Paradisisday.org, and that's gonna be your homework is figuring out how to spell that in Latin. But ⁓ so if you we we make it, you know, really easy for people to find us on the website. But but if you go there, there's all sorts of programs. And ⁓ if you don't have that many as you in your parish, I encourage you to look into bringing it to your parish. You know, think about God using you to impact so many families. ⁓ if you could bring it to your parish and ⁓ you will be a blessing about those of you who want to learn about being a missionary, missionary missionary to the family, you can go all same. Yeah, same website okay. Perfect. Just when you get there it says four couples and you will find insurance to pay. Excellent. No you can top the mic a little bit more. That's true. That's right. Yeah. Absolutely. Any retreats coming up? ⁓ well formation retreats. So ⁓ formation retreat. Okay. Off retreat for the next class is in July. So okay we and then I think one year. So it is one a year to start with. Do you have to do retreat? So the first retreat is in January at Notre Dame. The second retreat is down in the Houston area. Yeah, in January. ⁓ Okay. And then the commissioning retreat is usually at Notre Dame, Louisiana. We don't know. So Michigan couples just go at least so you can go to the winter. Yeah. That's Michigan. True to the Hail Mary's. Finish it off. All right. Father's some more spirit. You know. Hail Mary, so Grace works with you, lesser at the Mamboon. Blessed is the birth of thine womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you all so much for listening. Till next time, go out there and be a saint. Brothers, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If the show has added value to your life, I'm going to ask you to do three things. Share with a brother who needs it. Leave us a review. And finally, support the show so we can keep fighting. Links are in the show notes. We'll see you next week.