Ep 219 - Real Martyrdom of St. Peter & St. Paul with Fr. Robert Nixon

James Caldwell: This is the Manly Catholic, the podcast that calls you out of the shadows and into the fight. Here we forge men into warriors for Christ, husbands, fathers, and leaders who refuse to kneel to the modern world's lies. No more passivity, no more excuses, no more lukewarm faith. This is your battle crowd, your call to arms. The time for weakness is over. It's time to fight. Welcome to the Manly Catholic. Let's get to work. Hello, all. Welcome back to another episode of the Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and we're welcoming back once again Father Robert Nixon. Father, welcome back to the Manly Catholic Podcast. Thank you, James. it's it's an honor to be with you today and have the opportunity of sharing with you and all of your listeners. Yes, father is a beloved guest here on the podcast. But for those of you who have not heard of from Father, before Father Robert Nixon is a monk of the Abbey of the Most Ho of the Most Holy Trinity in New Norsea, Western Australia, and serves as the director of the Institute for Benedictine Studies. He is a prolific translator of medieval works, for tan books, including The Cross and Medal of Saint Benedict. He actually came on the podcast on episode 167, where he wrote a book, Eucharistic Visions of Saint Francis of Rome. And from episode 208, as well on the podcast, The Mystical Meaning of Numbers and Sacred Scripture from Saint Isidore of Seville. But tonight we have another translation from Father Robert, and I'm gonna flash it up here for all of the audience to see here on YouTube. So it is the Life and Martyrdom of Saint Peter and Saint Paul from Saint Abdeus of Babylon, of course, translated by Father Robert. Next thing but Father, before we dive into that, can you please lead us in a word of prayer before we start? In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Lord God, we ask that your wisdom and your insights may guide and inspire us today as we contemplate the heroic lives and missions and ultimate martyrdoms of your great apostles Saints Peter and Paul. We ask this through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, our Holy Father Benedict, and of course these saints. The same wonderful apostles, through Christ our Lord. Amen. In the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Thank you, Father, as always. Now, Father, this is again the third time on the podcast. And you, like I said, you just keep busting out all these translations. First of all, how do you have the time to keep diving into these rich traditional stories and and translations from these saints that have sort of been lost over time? I mean, it must be quite a project that you are undergoing. yeah, yeah, it is. It is. but I I try to approach it in the spirit of Lexio Divina or prayerful reading. And because I in a way I would be reading these works anyway, and you know, I preferred I prefer to read in Latin if the text is is was written in Latin originally, or a good translation in Latin exists. So in that process of reading, I'm kind of translating as I go anyway. So for me then to to to to write it down, I mean it does add you know, an another a certain other level of of effort and concentration. But you know, I it's it's like part of my of my own spiritual life anyway. It's part of my my prayer and study. So so I'm very happy to be able to do this, you know, and and though of course the reality is that that often I am somewhat pressed for time because we're a small community and we keep the the monastic life going. you know, and this means that we we do all kinds of duties. Each one of the monks here has probably about you know half a dozen or if not more different jobs that we're taking care of. And and so it's it can be a challenge at times, but I believe that it is very worth it because it it's great to get these works out before a contemporary Catholic readership. Well, I I'm thoroughly enjoying all your translations that you're putting forth. So thank you, first of all, for the the work that you are doing. I know it cannot be easy. But let's let's dive in a little bit to I know most people who've listened have heard of St. Peter and Paul. but I do want to dive a little bit into the author, so to speak, of the your translations that you took it from is Saint Abdius of Babylon. Would you mind diving into a little bit of of his story. Absolutely. So Saint Abdius of Babylon is believed to have been one of the seventy two disciples sent out by Christ. And he be he went you know after the after the resurrection and ascension of our Lord he went forth as a missionary into what we would call well good Babylon, I suppose, but what you could also call Persia, that part of the world. So corresponding more or less with modern day Iran. And he went forth and he became the first bishop of the city of Babylon, as it was still known back in those days. And he he amongst his other works, he wrote the lives of the of of most of the apostles. And he was you know pretty much of the same generation of the apostles, or you know, a little bit younger. So he was kind of in a privileged situation that their them in most cases their their missionary work and their martyrdoms were still within living memory. And so he wrote these works originally in in Greek. And the name Abdius, by the way, is another form of Obadiah, who of course was one of the one of the minor prophets. Greek and they were translated then into Latin, and they survived and continued to be read throughout the Middle Ages. our earliest surviving manuscripts of these date from about the ninth century and in Latin versions. Having said that though, they are these particular ones, the lives of Saint Peter and Saint Paul, are strongly supported by other early sources. So for example, we have a biography of Saint Peter, attributed to Saint Linus, and you'll you will have heard mention of Linus in the Roman canon, he was a coadjutor bishop with Saint Peter in Rome. he didn't actually become the second Pope, but you know he was he he wrote a number of lives, including the martyrdom of Saint Peter and Saint Paul. Then we have some other early sources as well, including the writings attributed to Saint Clement I. And Saint Clement I was the second bishop of Rome, the successor of of Saint Peter. And and he wrote you know, based on what was what was recent history when he was living. And these writings of Saint Abdeus they they match almost perfectly in their historical details with these other early sources. And so I I believe that there is there's very compelling reason to give great credence to these stories of the lives and death of of Saint Peter and Saint Paul. So they're they're remarkable works, and as I said, we don't know too much about this Saint Abdius or Saint Obadiah, the first bishop of Babylon. But we do know that he was a missionary and that he produced these biographies, or not complete biographies, but Histories of the mission, rework and martyrdom of the apostles. Yeah, and and Father, honestly, it was a very easy read. And it it was ki it was kind of cool. It was almost like a a fictional novel, you know, because it's really easy to kind of thumb through, especially, you know, because we we don't know, you know, a ton, like you said, from the scripture. I mean, it kind of stops at you know, obviously the Acts of the Apostle, and we have the letters, of course, that St. Paul wrote. But I love that, you know, he goes he goes a little bit beyond that because he dives a little bit deeper and he kind of gets into their personalities a little bit more, which I I did enjoy. As well. Do you mind kind of touching a little bit on on that, what his writings reveal about those personalities a little bit? Yeah, absolutely, you know, and and just talking about, you know, that scripture doesn't tell us all that much. Well, we get a little picture of Saint Peter's personality from the Gospels, of course. But of course the the the Saint Peter who we see in the Gospels was actually the kind of young Saint Peter. You know, the pre resurrection, the pre Pentecost Saint Peter. And and yes, sometimes he does kind of get you know, he he does the kind of things that young people often do. They could be a bit over enthusiastic or a bit inconsistent or a bit wavering. But certainly we see his mature personality in this work. And this is his personality when he had gone to Rome, when he was basically the very first Pope. and we see also strongly Saint Paul's personality coming through. And of course you could say, well, we see St. Paul's personality very strongly in the letters. well yes and no. When with the letters we kind of get the the insider's view of his personality. You know? And of course in the letters we don't see, you know, about Saint Paul. He was in fact a a very heroic And charismatic figure. And and he kind of plays this down in his own letters and says, you know, when I'm there in person, you know. but i you know, we I do think we get this complete picture of the mature personalities of Saint Peter and St. Paul. And of course, this was strengthened by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, which they were receiving. And I think these e these extra works, which tell us the stories of their life, are so important because One thing I've encountered sometimes today, and is th the idea that if it's not in scripture, we don't really know. So we say, we don't know about this apostle because there's only two lines of inscrip in scripture about them. Or we don't know anything about their later life. But that that really isn't true. because there are not only early writings, in many cases more or less contemporary writings as these are. But there are also, you know, a range of local traditions, places and so forth. One of the very interesting things about the lives of Saint Peter, it it identifies all these places in Rome where things took place, you know, where he was martyred, where miracles occurred. And always these places are actually still existing places in Rome named after those same events. Which is further collaboration of their historicity and their veracity. So, you know, I think the the the the traditional Protestant approach is, you know, if it's not in scripture we can't give it any real credit. but I think no we need to look beyond that because, you know, Saint Peter and Saint Paul were both historically very important figures. I mean they were comparable import in importance to Julius Caesar. or Charlemagne in the history of the West, if you e if not more. and and for this reason it's silly to say we don't know anything about their history when in fact there is an abundance of documents and traditions and in most cases these documents and traditions they more or less accord. They support each other. So I I you know, as I said, I think we should We should treat these works very interestingly and to see, you know, the final stages of life of Saint Peter and Saint Paul is is truly inspiring, you know, and puts a lot of colour and energy into the nature of the early church and the difficulties which which these people encountered and their great courage, their willingness to, you know, literally to go to the ends of the world as it was known at the time. Coffee and prayer. It's the perfect blend. Mystic Monk Coffee isn't just another cup of coffee. It's handcrafted by the Carmelite monks of Wyoming, roasted with care and infused with prayer. Whether you're starting your morning or fueling your day, Mystic Monk Coffee has you covered. It offers rich, bold flavors that are as divine as their mission. By choosing Mystic Monk, you're not just enjoying exceptional coffee, but you're supporting a community of monks dedicated to their work, to prayer, and to the church. Is coffee with a cause. So what are you waiting for? Visit Mystic Monkcoffee.com and experience the brew that's feeling faith and flavor. Yeah, it it truly is inspiring, Father. I mean, you just again, like you said, look at you know, the church nowadays and of course the church has problems, but then you look back at the lives of these these great men who, you know, obviously they they share a feast day. I mean, it shows how important these two men are, that they these guys have always been kind of interconnected throughout their lives and just the transformation that the Holy Spirit took upon them. But there is there is one story I wanted to talk about before we we kinda dive into the martyrdom, and that was Saint Peter's encounter. with Simon Magnus or Magus. Magus, if I'm saying that correctly. And I want to ask you about that because I I I love that. That was a great confront not confrontation, but great dialogue between the two. And I wanna just kinda get your perspective on that and and share that with our audience as well. Okay. So, you know, we know a a little bit about Simon Magnus from from scripture, you know, about how he he wanted Be baptized, wanted to be confirmed, and then wanted to receive the power of the Holy Spirit to be able to do the same kind of things that the apostles were doing. but we don't really know so much about what happened after that. But from this we actually do get a clearer picture. So he kind of became well, I guess you could say a pseudo-apostle for want of a better word. And he travelled to Rome and you know apparently he had quite an extensive following. You know, he had a reputation for being a a a miracle worker, you know, and and a philosopher and so forth. and he confronted again, he met with Saint Peter there, and there was almost a a kind of showdown between these two. And the circumstances with this are very much to do with firstly impressing the people and then also convincing n the emperor Nero, who apparently was a follower of Saint Saint I should say, certainly not Saint of Simon Major. And I I'll share with you a little bit of the event here as it as it's outlined. So there's kind of a a public Debate organized. This is after Peter has this miraculous escape from prison, which is recounted to us in the Acts of the Apostles. And so he presented himself as someone great and standing apart from the other disciples of Christ. And he wanted to undermine the other apostles, including Saint Peter, of course. He he has this debate with Saint Peter in a public square, you know, and Peter speaks first and then Simon replies to him. And the the response of Simon is is really a whole series of boasts. He talks about how he is, you know, the first in virtue and power and that he's in perfect union with God. So he kind of makes tries to make himself a second type of messiah, a second. Christ and boasts of all these miracles which he can do, including flying through the air. And so eventually what happens is Simon then comes back again wanting to be reconciled, but then again betrays him. And eventually there's this competition in Rome, and Simon appears to be flying through the sky. And Saint Peter prays and 'cause he knows that Simon can only do this through you know, through evil spirits, basically, demonic influence. And then upon Simon's prayers, upon Peter's prayers, Simon is cast to the ground and badly injured. Then there's another amazing event where they both appear before the Emperor Nero. And you know, Nero at this stage is is more or less a follower of Simon Magist. And he gives a challenge. He says, Which of you can tell me what I'm thinking? And of course Simon can't do it. He says it's impossible. but then Peter is quietly able to to achieve this thing. And that is where his problems with with Nero really started, because that kind of made Nero frustrated and and angry and confused, and so he wanted to get Saint Peter out of the way as possible, which which led to his martyrdom in due course. One of the interesting things is that in Rome there's actually a statue, believed to be a statue of Simon Magius, and you know, the inscription suggests that. And this dates back to the imperial times. So so yeah, it does seem to add up that he had this big following. And the writings of Saint Clement the First also kind of collaborate this. But so it's a it's a decisive showdown and it's really for the hearts of the Roman people, and also you know, the Roman officials. And in the end, although Peter is martyred, because of his heroism in his his martyrdom and his courage and the fact that he had defeated Simon on these previous occasions, it was one of the decisive factors in making the people of Rome as a whole choose Christ, choose Christianity. And and so this, you know, the conversion of Rome, even though the official conversion of the Empire didn't take place until a couple of centuries later, the the Roman people were, you know, they were very well disposed towards Christianity and the church Sometimes it was underground, sometimes it didn't need to be underground, depending upon the policy of the particular emperor at the time. but it it became very strong, as we know. Yeah, that that story is so interesting, Father, because I I remember when I first read the book or in the gospel where they talked about Saint Simon the sorcerer, I believe his name is, not Saint Simon. no I'm saying Saint Simon now. Not saying, let's make that clear. Yeah. He was far from it. But Simon the Sorcerer. And you know, when he got rebuked and and the way the the gospel is is is portrayed, I almost like felt bad for him. It's like, like he's this this guy, like he just wants to, you know, be a follower. But then this story kind of just sheds light, like, no, no, no, no, no, no. He was doing this because it's all about him. It was yeah. Yeah. And and and you know, we we act you know, we do see that also in this writing. At at various times he does you know, repent and ask to be reconciled, St. Peter. And, you know, I you know, my my own policy is always to give people something of the benefit of the doubt. So during these times at least, there might have been some, you know, sincerity in him. So, you know, I th this this this which is often a characteristic of of weak characters, you know, there's this vanity and ambition, but also at times there is this sincere searching for the truth which perhaps came to the fore at certain points in time in him. So I guess like like like a lot of people he was a he was a probably a complex character. more complex than we can imagine, you know, and and probably also, you know, from his boasts of flying through the air, which he ends up doing, but then crashing to the ground. This kind of thing, he was probably somewhat deranged, I think would be fair to say. Absolutely. Absolutely. And Father, does St. Abdius did he did he touch on kind of their the preaching styles? I mean, I know we we we get a little bit again in the Gospels. Does he talk about how Saint Peter and Paul went about their evangelization and Absolutely. And one one of the great things about this book is he includes quite lengthy addresses made by both Saint Peter and Saint Paul. And often these are are actually before the Roman officials, before before the Emperor, for example. And that is you know, I think that it's quite likely that the speeches which were made in this semi juridical situation before the emperor were actually recorded within the you know the record of the time. And so he's able to give these to us. And you know, it shows that it shows that these that both Saint Peter and Paul were were fantastic public speakers, that they were capable of engaging you know, in in a reasonable and courteous dialogue using the type of philosophical arguments, you know, philosophical arguments, arguments based on things which the Romans were able to understand and appreciate. And in in in most cases, you know, their speech was held to be so favorably either that it convinced people, or that it convinced them at the very least, that what St. Peter and St. Paul believed was perfectly reasonable and was no threat to To the civil order, which of course was the great fear at the time, was one of the main causes for the persecution. You know, these stories would go around that the Christians are intent upon overthrowing law and order and everything like that, overthrowing the family, overthrowing the economy, which was, you know, far from the case. And we see this in the writings of early authors like Tertullian, but we also see it in the preaching of Saint Peter and Saint Paul. So that they could argue with these pagan philosophers and say, okay, even if you don't believe what we believe, at least accept our right to believe it, that we're not a threat to to to civilization, to culture. Yeah, that's I mean I yeah, because I know Saint Paul, I forget which letter passage or you know, he he speaks to the Greeks and he he he says, I see you guys are very religious people. You know, you have a God for this, a God for this, and you have a God that says, you know, to an unknown God, so to speak, and then, you know, he goes into obviously his his pre preaching and teaching about Jesus Christ and everything. But no father, we have about fifteen minutes left and I and I have to ask, 'cause the book is the life in martyrdom of Saint Peter and Paul. And I wanted to touch on both of the martyrdoms 'cause I I think this this this translation shed light on both of those gentlemen and and how they reached their end. Do you mind we'll start with Saint Peter first? And how what does the book say about how St. Peter became a martyr? okay, so Peter's martyrdom, and I guess this is one of the the famous stories about him, was that he he was actually crucified like Christ. And I will just get to the to the relevant section, but when he was crucified he asked that he should be turned upside down as a as a kind of sign that he was not on the same level as Jesus Christ himself as a kind of sign of his humility. so just finding it for you here. So he makes this he he's taken out, you know, this is after Saint after Simon the sorcerer has died, and this makes you know the Emperor Nero, who had been a friend of his, you know, very angry, kind of diabolically angry, so he orders the execution of Peter. And as Saint Peter is being led out of the city to be killed, Christ actually appears to him and he asks Christ, My lord, where are you going? What are you doing? And this phrase is of course famous. in Latin it's quovardis domine equivalis, you know, and there there's a particular place in Rome where this vision occurred, which is commemorated. And in fact in that particular place in Rome there's inscribed those words quo vardus. That inscription, apparently somewhat mysterious, actually dates back to this vision of Christ, this appearance of Christ to St. Peter as he's being led to his death. And then when he's being killed, this huge crowd gather, which is both Christians and non-Christians, and they're all saying, why is Peter being killed? Why is this man who we know, you know, what has he actually done wrong? Because he was very much admired, not only amongst the Christians, but even amongst the the Roman citizens, amongst the non-Christian. And so they're worried about that, but then Peter speaks up boldly and says that in fact what is happening to him is is a good thing, because it's an opportunity for witness for his final entrance into the joy of his master. And he raised his voice as he's crucified, O profound mystery of the cross, mystery beyond all words. This is the chain of love, the bond which can never be broken. It is the tree of the life on which The Lord Christ Jesus himself was raised up. On the cross, death itself was put to death, and every human soul in the entire world freed from the bonds of everlasting death. And then after his death, a man called Mercellus immediately took the body and buried it in a place at that time which was not very prominent place, but it was a place known as the Vatican. And this continues to be the resting place of Saint Peter to this very day. And i and in this early account it tells us that it's near the Via Triumphalus, which is now known as the Via Triumphale, which is of course just near Saint Peter's Basilica in the Vatican. Then when we get to the story of the death of Saint Paul, so this happens on the same date. People have sometimes been unsure whether it was on literally the same day, i. e. the same day of the same year, but the early sources generally say that it's not, and this includes Saint Augustine and here. And it says, yes, it happened on the same date, but not on the same year. So it was a few years afterwards, probably about three or four years afterwards. And he is killed by beheading. And again it's under Nero, who orders that Saint Paul should be killed by having his head cut off. He stood there for a while, faced the east, with hands raised to heaven in prayer. He wished peace to all who were present, blessed them in the name of God. Then, without fear he extended his neck, offering it freely to the axe of the executioner, who stood ready to perform his grim duty. Then with a single deadly blow the head was cut off, and then this is an interesting detail, not blood, but milk poured forth. And this in fact is something that which is recounted in the story of numerous Roman martyrs, that when they when their heads were cut off it was milk which came forth. So this was a kind of symbol or a a visual representation of their purity of soul, a manifestation of that. And then it tells us that a certain female follower of Christ, Lucina, took the body of Saint Paul and placed it in a tomb located at the Via Ostiense. And this this place, this Via Ostiense, is now the location of the Basilica of Saint Paul's outside the wolves, and of course that is one of our greatest Benedictine monasteries, the monastery of Saint Paul's outside of the wolves, and of course the basilica dedicated to Saint Paul remains there to this present day. Gosh, just powerful testimonies. Even just their last words that they I mean, it's always encouraging their the people around them and still trying to preach and bring people to Christ before you know before their last breath. Father, what would you say would be the biggest takeaway that men could have moving forward, just learning from these these tremendous saints that we have in the church history? Yeah, you know, I think I think the the the greatest cut the amongst the greatest things, firstly, is the connection. between the gospel and acts of the apostles as historical documents that they in fact then do continue with the history of of of Christendom. And of course, you know, that might seem to be self evident, but you know, often we we forget about that. You know, often we kind of put what's told in the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles into one category and secular history into another category as if they were completely independent things. But no. so at that that's a reminder that Jesus Christ, his life, his apostles were in fact concrete historical realities in the world. You know, they're not just spiritual or mystical expressions, but the two come together. The other thing is the great courage of these men, you know, and when we when we read about their lives from this historical point of view, which in a way is from the point of view of eternity, because it takes it out of their immediate place and time. We see that they saw their own lives, their historical their heroic sacrifices, their courage. All of this sprang from the fact that everything they did was in the sight of eternity. And so they had no fear of or limited fear of death in this passing world. They knew they had to give their rule to life in order to live life to the full. And that's what Christ promises us and what he calls each and every one of us to do. Father, there anything else we need to know about St. Abdeus of Babylon's translation of of these tremendous saints before we let you go? no, James, I I think we've just about covered it all, but I would urge all of your your readers to to to have a read of these books. I think they would find it very inspiring and edifying. Absolutely. And again, this is I'll flash it one more time for everyone on YouTube the life and martyrdom of Saint Peter and Saint Paul by St. Abdeus of Babylon. Translated of course by Father Robert Nixon. I will leave a link in the show notes to Tan books. Obviously you can get this at Amazon or or other sites as well. But I'm always good to support a Catholic store like Tan. Father, before we let you go, I know you gotta get to your to to your duties over there in Australia. Can you give us a final blessing, please, Father? Through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary and our Holy Father Saint Benedict and the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul, may the blessing of Almighty God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit come down upon you and remain with you always. Amen. Thank you, Father. Father, before we let you go, do you have anything else cooking in the works of another translation if you're allowed to announce it yet? Coming out very soon, the life of Saint John of the Cross. And this life of Saint John of the Cross is based on testimony given by Saint Teresa of Avila. So wonderful read and due out pretty soon in December. Great. Fantastic. Well we'll have to have you back on again for that, Father. Thank you again so much for all the work you do. We we greatly appreciate it. And thank you all so much for thank you all so much for listening. Until next time, go out there and be a saint. Brothers, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If the shows add value to your life, I'm going to ask you to do three things. Share with a brother who needs it, leave us a review, and finally support the show so we can keep fighting. Links are in the show notes. We'll see you next week.